In late 1999, at the peak of the boom, when luxury groups were falling over themselves to buy old Swiss haute horlogerie houses, Louis Vuitton Moet Henessy (LVMH) acquired Zenith, a tired chronograph specialist in Le Locle. Charged with dusting off the cobwebs from the brand was Thierry Nataf. Nataf became CEO of Zenith in June 2001 as well as President a few months later. Before that he was in charge of another LVMH company, Veuve Cliquot Ponsardin, an upmarket champagne house.
At the time of the LVMH takeover, Zenith was an unpolished gem. The company had an extensive collection of in-house movements, including the valuable El Primero chronograph. Back then, for majority of Swiss watch companies, the only choices were the El Primero or the Frederic Piguet cal. 1185, when an integrated, column wheel chronograph was needed. Zenith supplied a good number of firms with chronograph movements, including Panerai, Rolex and Daniel Roth, although that practice has now ceased.
Zenith movements were found in some of the most exciting and iconic watches of the nineties, including the Rolex Daytona as well as several Panerai models. Ironically, Zenith itself made conservative, perhaps even pedestrian, timepieces. The most daring Zenith of that era was the Rainbow Flyback, it was available with, gasp, a yellow dial. Despite its best efforts, Zenith watches were hardly bestsellers. A measure of how badly it was faring commercially was the popularity of Zenith watches amongst the savvy crowd on internet watch forums.
Rainbow Flyback - Psychedelic colours
That all came to an abrupt end when Thierry Nataf took the helm. He dragged the company into the 20th century and turned it into one of the most extravagant and flamboyant names in the business. Some have regarded this change with disdain, but the company is undoubtedly a commercial success in its current guise. Here we talk to the man responsible for this turnaround.
Editor's note: This interview was conducted on October 30, 2006. Many thanks to Charmaine Ho at Mercury Marketing & Communications for arranging this interview.
Su JiaXian (SJX): Tell us how you ended up as president of Zenith…
Thierry Nataf (TN): All my life [I’ve been] crazy about watches, and I never thought for one minute I was going to be a president of a watch company one day. But I am also an engineer by training, and also MBA. I have always been fascinated by technology and all my life, each time I make a little bonus I bought a watch. But I never thought that one day I would be president of a watch company. In 2001, when LVMH, the famous Louis Vuitton Moet Henessey corporation, decided to invest in the watch industry, I was elected to be president of Zenith. For me it was a dream come through. It was a passion, and to have a chance like that, to awake a sleeping dragon. Zenith is a mythical company, it was created in 1865; the name Zenith means the highest point in the sky. The symbol of the star [in the Zenith logo], we are trying to reach excellence. This house, with more than 141 years, it was sleeping, because we were doing the movement for third parties, other very famous brands. When I joined in 2001, there were things to do. On one hand, respecting the tradition, but on the other hand, dreaming of the future.
SJX: And you became chief designer as well?
TN: All my life I’ve been president, and also creative director in different industries, from luggage industry to electronic business, even fashion. In the case of Zenith, I didn’t want to design the watch at the beginning, because I said to myself, I will have so much to do, to re-establish a R&D centre, new manufacturing facility, watchmakers; today we have more than 250 watchmakers, at the time we were nothing. We had to recreate everything. So I said no, I was looking for someone to take the design lead and then I didn’t find him. After some months of research my board told me, you have the capacity, you understand what you are talking about, and at the same time I did training in watches because I think it’s very important as a president of a watch company that you understand [the watches]. I’m a man who loves to understand how it works; I was telling a friend of mine, as a a kid how I opened one of my watch one day. I love to understand how it works inside. And of course I had the chance at Zenith, even if the company was on the verge of refoundation, you had in-house people that had incredible knowledge. It was very interesting for me, the beginning of an adventure, learning the mystery of the watch. Even as a client, you have ThePuristS, you have a lot of magazines, but it’s very different when you are inside [a company], to understand how it works and so on. I did that and at the same time I decided to design the first collection. And step after step, it has been incredible.
SJX: Can you elaborate on the creative process at Zenith?
TN: Zenith can be compared to a luxury car company, you have on one hand, a research and development centre which is a technical one, with more than 15 engineers. But I also did some transfer of technology - I took people from the car industry, the plane industry, but of course a lot of engineers that are specialised in watchmaking. Here we work on all the new generation, today we have more 18 calibres in the Zenith collection. All of that is the fruit of the research and development centre. All the teams work on CAD computers, they work on the question of friction, they work to establish the new movement generation. We created a new movement generation called the 4000 series, which is inspired by El Primero generation. We work for instance in the development like that [the new Defy collection].
SJX: What inspires the designs of Zenith watches?
TN: This one specifically, Defy, came to me, when I was dreaming of a watch where I would take the best car, the best boat, the best plane, and I would design it with the Zenith style. Defy means new challenge and I said to myself we will go faster, higher, stronger. So it’s a philosophy of power, speed, it was my original idea. And in that collection I had an idea, in every man there is a wise side, and a more extreme one. For instance, this man is driving his Aston Martin, here it is a Lamborghini. Here it is a commercial jet, here it is a fighter jet. You see the idea? And I create a watch which is like that, a duality. Here is the Defy Classic, and here the Defy Extreme. In fact, all my inspiration was really that, best car, best boat - performance, no limit, extreme. I designed this in that philosophy.
Defy Extreme Tourbillon. A combination of black titanium, kevlar, carbon fibre, aluminium, that can go down to 1000 metres.
SJX: Do you draw any inspiration from your hobbies, free time, for you watches?
TN: Yes, yes, yes! Defy is born from my crazy love of crazy car, crazy boat, crazy plane; I fly a plane, and I love these incredible mechanical engines. I love the fact that you are sitting and suddenly you go at 200 kilometres per hour. For Port Royal, it’s the Zen spirit, the martial arts spirit. When you take Class, it’s a tribute to the infinity of time. Inside I have the number eight [shape of the porthole to view the escapement], infinity, it’s the idea that if you are very classic, you go beyond the classic, you go eternal. There is no difference between my public me and myself, when I am relaxing, listening to music, when I see something that strikes me, I take it. And each time when I design, I have a story in my mind. So I write a storyboard, and for all the stories I do a little clip. (Editor's note: Each Zenith collection has an accompanying video clip, click here or go to Zenith website and click on "GOODIES".)
Chronomaster Open Retrograde
SJX: With these video clips showing people driving Aston Martins and flying private jets, would you say Zenith is more of a lifestyle brand, as opposed to a technical, traditional brand?
TN: No, no. If you want a strategic leader, we are placed there. The aficionados, the crazy watch lovers, they have always loved Zenith. What I realise also is that all around the world, you need to give the love of watches to everyone. While some people [do it through] technique, some people need to dream a little bit, not being the classic, very serious, very sad. Not saying you’re too young to love watches; it’s impossible, you can only love watches when you’re fifty or sixty. And I said to myself, why? When I was a kid I had no money, but I loved watches and my saved to buy my first watch. My idea was really to live in an open world, and that there are different types of clients. From time to time in Switzerland, if you know don’t the perpetual calendar, minute repeater, people cannot talk with you. I think it is a little bit snobbish. When you have the chance to have such a beautiful company, you should open it to the world. And my idea was to say, let’s open it.
From the guy in Tokyo, to the guy in New York, to the guy in Singapore, in Paris, in Geneva, there is a different sort of people. Some are completely crazy aficionados - of course we are their brand too – but some would like to drive that fantastic car or watch without completely understanding what it is, and we can help them understand. My work has been to do that in a way. At the same time, to be very demanding in technology, we have the perpetual. One of my most complicated watches, the Grande Class Traveller Minute Repeater - 48 functions, only 3 watches a year. I love this idea, this philosophy of time, that we are very strong in technique while at the same time strong in design and emotion. I try to be complete, to close the loop. When you look around here, you really feel the spirit of Zenith, from the traditional Chronomaster to more avant garde design like the Port Royal or Defy collection. All my work has been around that, but never neglecting the spirit of the manufacture, which is really the history from 1865 to today. We are a house of tradition, but I have a vision of beauty and luxury, and for me, art, passion, technology, the best of everything. I believe at the end of the day, yesterday and tomorrow are not enemies, they meet today. In a way the future is a gift of the present, and it is that spirit that we have at our company.
SJX: Zenith has changed a lot since you took over, what are your greatest accomplishments as the president of Zenith?
TN: I think it’s together with my team; it’s the work of a team. I have a fantastic team of people in Switzerland and all around the world. You know I think what is fantastic is now Zenith is back at the zenith, at the top, we have re-entered the top 5 brands all around the world. People buying my watch is my best reward, and something that if you had told me 5 years ago I would not have believed. Also to have given a style to the house, you recognise a Zenith. And to bring new technology, we were able to make several breakthroughs in technology. I am very proud of that. I also know we must never sit on our laurels, a lot of people are very jealous of Zenith, of the way we did it and we know the more you are criticised, the better it is. A war of luxury, a lot of groups hate to see us succeeding. At the end of the day, c’est la vie, you work hard and put in a lot of passion. We also have the chance to have fantastic audience, through ThePuristS.com, through all the magazines, each time I come up with the collection, it has been very strongly welcomed. For me it is the public, the people wearing my watch, men and women, it is a great satisfaction for all of us. But of course, stars never die, but stars also never stop rising, and it’s very important to continue to work in the technological field, in the emotional design and spirit, to continue to build the company.
SJX: Looking towards the future, what do you think are the challenges for the brand?
TN: I think that being a very technical house - we are called the king of the chronograph from 1920 till today - I think we will need to continue to do breakthrough innovation. We did it with the El Primero Open, we did it with the very fast tourbillon (Editor's note: The Zenith tourbillon beats at 36,000 oscillations per hour, the fastest in the industry), we did it with the split second, and so on and so forth to the grande complication we have, the minute repeater and others. With the Defy, we enter into a new revolution of technological innovation and material, we see that with the Port Royal tourbillon, a new way of conceiving the watch where there is no difference between the movement and the design of the outside, the case. It is also interesting to know that I do believe in the years to come the technology, the new material technology, the chemistry, the silicium, new components of ceramics, new ways of conceiving the movement itself. Or even nanotechnology that we see now coming inside our industry, are very, very interesting. And I believe that the watch industry will have a technical revolution, so Zenith needs to be on the front, a leader of this. That’s why I invest 6 to even 8 percent of my sales in research and development. In Switzerland, we are recognised as one of the best research and evelopment centre in the mechanical industry. But of course also the Zenith watch school is helping us a lot. Today we have more than 250 watchmakers working, which makes us one of the top 5 manufacture. We produce all our calibres in-house, from a hour-minute-second to a chrono, to a perpetual calendar to a tourbillon, we are now master of all our complications in-house, which is very important to me. We will need to continue to be like that, very innovative on the technical side, but also on the design side. It is a good balance between the two that is the secret and signature of this company.
Port Royal Tourbillon in titanium. Pictures do this watch no justice, it looks far better in real life. This is one of the new generation Zenith watches I like.
SJX: Who would you say today is Zenith’s main competitors? Royal Oak Offshore for the Defy Extreme?
TN: Depends on the segment in fact. Zenith, like the 5 [points of the] star, we are entering into that league [of the Royal Oak Offshore], you go to the Port Royal, it's avant garde design. We are like a star, a ninja star, when you throw us, each of our universes go to different competitors. When you go to the more traditional line, even to the very high end; when you go to the very high end, we like to say there are no more competitors for us. On the one hand, Zenith has different competitors for universal collection, at the same time when we reach certain points, there are no more competitors. But I think at the end of the day, it is an industry where there is room for all of us. When you like watches, a man that loves watches will buy one a day, one brand or manufacture. I am very lucky in fact, because I work in an industry where not all, but some, of my competitors do good work. And it’s very motivating, and it’s good globally for the market because people have good choice. It’s like the car industry, when you have to choose between Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Mercedes, BMW, the league where we play is a good one. I put all my passion behind Zenith and as such the company is developing very strongly.
SJX: On ThePuristS, I’m sure you have read, earlier this year there was some discussion about Zenith. Some people said the designs are too loud, as you said ThePuristS are very serious. How would you respond?
TN: First, I love free opinion. I am a super democrat, and I think that these forums are very important, even for me, because it gives me a pulse on the market. I do believe when I construct Zenith - as the president you have to be a constructor, just like in a watch - I had a vision of creating a new city or a new planet. From time to time you need to build a new skyscraper, everyone will talk about it [the Defy], other times you take an existing building, you refurbish it to make it in the spirit of the time [the Classic models]. When you have the duty and the honour, to be president of such an ancient company, you need to maintain the tradition, at the same time you need to show leadership in new design and innovation. I do believe that today – and I do believe that ThePuristS.com will agree with me – if you took things in perspective, and you at all what I’ve done in my work in Zenith, you’ll realise that it’s true I did some very avant garde, strong designs. But today in the watch industry, a lot of people, extremely serious people, are following that trend and doing very extreme and avant garde design. If you look at me and the way I have worked my icons like the Chronomaster, and the way I have respected the tradition, everyone sees that today in the industry, some people have come back to the roots and work on their tradition.
When you are in a leadership position, sometimes you have to be a little bit in advance of the opinion, you have to take a risk if you believe, if you are very honest, if you have the integrity, and if you believe in your dream you need to do that. And then one day people will understand. It’s normal, as a leader, as a president, as a designer, I am used to being judged. Some people will like me, some people will dislike me, you don’t need to be loved by all the planet, otherwise you’ll be patronising the world. You just need to have people that really believe in you. I have a very niche brand, it’s craftsmanship and it’s a very unique watch, it will be terrible for me if I have millions of clients, I will never be able to supply them. Probably people at the beginning didn’t understand me and I see through Purists.com also now, more and more I see people saying ‘yes, Thierry was right’, and I have a complete change in the opinion.
This I am used to, when you take such a mythical house like Zenith, at the beginning people were afraid what I would do with it. You know, Zenith is part of the national treasure of Switzerland, not only ThePuristS.com but also political power in Switzerland [were skeptical]. But with time, time helps to build everything. And of course today I have the worldwide success of the brand, we are in 55 countries, it is an incredible success; this has helped me. At the end, there is a saying, time will tell. Time has told, the route I took was the right one. A lot of people today, even the big, big names have followed me, they do avant garde design, they work on new technology. There is a major trend in the watch industry now, even in traditional houses, one is going in silicium, the other into very advanced design, at the same time I am proving that I have already made a watch of eternity. There is no difference between the past, the future and the present, it is all continuous, time will continue. That is what I have tried to do in my work, and will continue to do.
New Technology
Exploded view of the Defy Extreme Open El Primero 4021 SX. The chronograph bridge, balance & pallet cocks in shock-absorbing Zenithium Z+, an alloy of titanium, niobium and steel.According to Thierry, "we have worked for 5 years [on Zenithium]. Steel gives the resistance, the titanium absorbs shock and the niobium has memory of shape."
SJX: Do you take any of the opinions you see on the internet, or any media, do you take them into account?
TN: Yes, I listen to my clients. Sometimes I go into a store and I see what people are buying, what they think, I do also private dinners with people that love watches, to get their reaction. Sometimes I do dinner with very traditional people, sometimes I do with very advanced people, depending on what I’m looking for. I listen a lot to journalists also, because you have 360 degree [view], you see a lot of things that are interesting. I love to listen, I think it’s important to listen and understand the opinions of others. But then if you believe in something, you do it. But it’s good to have a measure, to listen to people, to know what’s happening.
SJX: About the rest of the industry, you are a manufacture but you no longer supply to other brands, only to LVMH brands?
TN: Correct. I am supplying to Louis Vuitton, TAG Heuer, and some Dior. It’s true I stopped [supplying] Panerai, to Rolex Daytona, to other prestigious names. I gave them time, in fact I gave them notice. First they are my friends, and you know the promise, it’s like in the car industry, suddenly they don’t have any more of the engine, it’s finished for them, a disaster, and they cannot replace it like that. So I gave 3 years, 4 years, depending. I checked with each of them how long they needed, even helped some of them; one I even helped to develop a new calibre. We had a good relationship, and it’s not that we are not friends anymore. The difficulty I had was very simple, the development of Zenith, the demand of Zenith is stronger than the production, so I could not supply them all. And even with sister companies, today when they ask me, I am very tight on production. I anticipated it was going to be successful to tell the truth, but not like it is now, I thought it was going to take me 10 years, which in an industry of long cycles is normal. In 2005 when I closed my accounts I was already in the dynamic of 2010, so I reviewed my strategic plan. I am very happy as a president, but also as a creator, because when you design you put your heart [in], they are like your sons, your babies, and you put a lot of passion into it, but then you never know will it work or not. Until it works, you don’t know.
Haute Horlogerie Tourbillon Black Tie
SJX: Are there any plans for Zenith to become a bigger manufacture, to supply even more movements to Louis Vuitton and TAG Heuer?
TN: Up to now, no. We do not plan to be a big supplier of movements, especially [since] the movement is made from between 300 to 500 components. As such it’s not so easy to push production, it’s not possible to even use robots, it’s all by hand. A watchmaker, you need to train him, minimum 7 to 10 years to get to a good level. So on the side of equipment, people, it’s not so easy. I don’t have plans, I prefer to stay very niche, only one quality – the finest. To do very short series per model, to have a real creativity signature of my house, but there is no plans [to expand].
SJX: Can you reveal how big Zenith is now?
TN: Ah, all the competitors dream to know my figures. Let me explain why I cannot. In fact Zenith is part of LVMH on the stock exchange, so I cannot reveal separately the figures. To give you an idea, during these years, we have regularly double digit growth each year. So the company has developed very, very well. It’s important because the more the company can develop, the more I can invest in research and development to create new models, new movements. Then I can continue to develop the watch spirit of this company, which is very important.
Haute Horlogerie Tourbillon Concept
SJX: Where do you see Zenith in 10, 20 years?
TN: It’s a very good question because I’m preparing my strategic plan; it’s the type of question I ask myself. I do believe this company, when you give perspective to it, in 5-10 years, we’ll be even more understood. Because at the beginning, people did not understand how something beautiful can be smart, when normally something beautiful is stupid, or it looks bad. You see the dilemma? Can it be beautiful and smart? It was a little bit bad, now we solved it. And Purists.com is really the pulse, we can see that people understand when you buy an Aston martin, or a Ferrari, or a Jaguar, BMW, the inside is good and the outside too. It’s not because you do very high quality in engineering, you should be a stupid designer. It’s not because you do a good engine inside, and a good outside, that you cannot put a nice guy in the picture. It should not look ugly, too serious. Today, we proved this. In the future, the company will get even stronger.
A very famous American newspaper wrote, ‘Zenith, the new leader in the mechanical watch’, but I don’t dream to be the number one, it’s not my dream. I just want to create something very strong for Zenith that will carry through the years. As a president, you inherited a company of 141 years, you realise there are not many companies that were created in 1865 that are still around. For me what is important that in the future, Zenith stays very strong, full of integrity with the people buying the watches and loving this philosophy of time. For me, the time is a positive value, time is a friend, time does not destroy you. And even in difficult moments of life, there is a poet that said, on the wings of time, sadness flies away. I love this idea that after all, time is our life, and life is time. You cannot measure something precious without a fantastic watch, and a Zenith watch has that; you can give it to your son. You know, I inherited from my grandfather a Zenith watch, because we’re Italian, from Veneto. To carry the value of my grandfather is something fantastic. That idea of transmission, I love this idea. Or from a daughter to her mother.
SJX: For the next generation…
TN: Yes, I love this. Real luxury is that, when you think about it, how many things will resist time? Nothing. Except art, Zenith watches, love, family. It’s also Chinese, that idea, because Italian and Chinese are very close in philosophy; that philosophy of building, of continuity that I love.
SJX: Do you read ThePuristS.com often? What do you think of it?
TN: I love it. Not because you’re here, I love what internet brought, the world wide forum. I am in my headquarters in Switzerland, or I’m travelling the world, I can click and then I’m in a world wide café where everyone is talking. I love the second thing, which is sometimes people can be very extreme and say good things that make you blush, or terrible things. The fantastic one is good for your ego, but the very bad, you are not happy, but it’s interesting also. I am deeply democratic, in life it is very important to have forums. The third thing that I love is that quite often, people know what they are talking about. People that really watch the watch, if I may say so, know about the watch, know what they are talking about; they are very passionate, they are very authentic – this I love.
SJX: Thank you!
As watches become a bigger and more lucrative business, technocrats and professional managers are increasingly displacing the elves, dwarves, bearded old men and other mythical creatures that ran the industry. Thierry Nataf is completely different from the bean counters one can find at many brands. He is passionate and confident, with an enthusiasm and salesmanship reminds one of Donald Trump almost, but Nataf has that touch of flair and poetry that The Donald lacks. Nataf unfortunately does not have the slick hair-do of The Donald.
Despite the flamoyance and zeal Nataf exudes, there is no misleading bullshit. Often I find executives from respected, traditional brands who try to pull wool over people's eyes with talk of 'exclusive in-house movements'. That is a refreshing change. While some of the new Zenith watches are not my cup of tea, I do respect the company and its leader.
- SJX
Copyright December 2006 - Su JiaXian and ThePuristS.com - all rights reserved